All right, welcome back everybody. Uh we're here with another episode of Checking In. Um I am with the wonderful Jessica D Roach, assist no vice chancellor for extension campuses. Close. Close. Yeah. What? vice chancellor of extension campus of ah missed it that's like assistant too is that I'm sure something like that vice chancellor nice uh Jessica is a wonderful community partner involved in tons of activities uh just just very very active and u we have the pleasure of picking her brain today a little bit on a podcast about the psychology of money just uh the good feelings the personal experiences the life lessons all of those things that we've learned about money, about income, about expenses, um just how to manage them and and all of those fun things. Um did we say NCTC? I don't think we said that. Yeah. Uh vice chancellor of extension campuses at NCTC. Yes. NCTC is a very big uh player in Gainesville and the education space and kind of preparing the next generation of workforce. So again, thanks for being here. Yeah, thrilled to have you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. Yeah, should be good. Looking forward to the conversation. So, uh we always start uh the segment or the first segment uh just talking about income and uh the question that we always begin the whole thing with is do you remember your first paycheck? Yes. Yes. Yes. What was that like? How did it make you feel? It was good. So, I started working at 13. Oh, goodness. Yeah. So, like an actual paying job with the W2 and all of that stuff at 13. Okay. No child labor laws. No child labor laws. My uncle actually ran a softball baseball park. And so my cousins and I, we worked the concession stand. So that was our summer gig. So that was my first job. Um, did I interview for it? No. Was I just told I could work? Yes. And they would pay us. Um, so yeah, that was my first job. 13 years old. We did that for probably a year or two. Mainly in the summers or on the weekends when they had big tournaments, but yeah. Yeah. Got a little sloped some nachos and cheese, hot dogs, candy, all that. So, how many suicides did you make? Are you familiar with this? Yes. But I think we did. I don't remember making suicides. So, yeah. For those of you who don't know, suicides u for a, you know, elementary or middle school age kid is heaven. It's just every flavor of soda in the same cup, right? Yeah. Uh I'm sure it tastes awful now, but for some reason after a baseball game when you're in little league, it's perfect. Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah. Next time I need a suicide, I'll come to you. Okay, that works. Perfect. Yeah. Well, um what' you do with that money if you're 13 and you got a little cash in your pocket? What does a 13-year-old do with that? Yeah. So, I was 13, so it was the summer before high school, so I saved my money and then I bought school stuff. So, I bought a backpack, school clothes. Um, and that's a big deal at that age because you're like, I want to pick out what I want to wear. Um, and sometimes it costs more and we didn't have a lot of money. So, I saved up my money and bought what I wanted to buy for the year and it was great. So, I bought Gap jeans because that was cool back then and like I think a Jansport backpack because that was cool as well. So, yeah. So, I bought school stuff. Nice. Mhm. That is um again I feel like outclassed here. That is not what I would have spent my money on when I was 13. I certainly would have been the irresponsible, you know, baseball cards, video games, you know, all that stuff. So yeah, so kudos. You learned responsibility from a a very early age. I mean, we probably were geared toward that, too. Like, hey, don't spend all your money over here. Like, save some for school. You're like, got it. So, I think I just saved all mine for school. Well, that's interesting that you mentioned that because some things that we talk about on this podcast is like what are the life lessons or what has taught you the most about money? Was it family experiences? Was it books? Was it, you know, TV shows? What was it? Sounds like yours was kind of a family culture. Yeah. Right. Definitely family culture. So, um, nobody in my family, everyone worked. They worked really hard, but we didn't have a lot. And so some years were really slim. Some years were a little I wouldn't say excessive because it was never excessive but more than the year before. And so money was always kind of at the forefront of consciousness of like how do we spend it? What can we spend it? Do we get a treat? Do we not get a treat? And so how do you plan for things? Um which we didn't do very well as a kid but now I'm like what are we planning for? What are we doing? So yes. So definitely family influenced that. and just learning as you go like, "Oh, I don't have money for groceries or a lot of money for groceries as an adult or a young adult and like, okay, so what can I eat? Where can I go to get food type of thing?" So, yeah. Yeah. How to balance some of those some of those wants and some of those needs. Was it was it particularly stressful like when you were a kid? Was it ever like a um oh my gosh, you know, we need more money or was it just like hey, this is how things are? Yeah. Uh, I think it would depend on the year of what was going on. If we moved and it was a little more stressful because it was setting things up and kind of new new amounts, rents, expenses definitely. Um, and also just life just changes. So my mother was a single mom and then she was married and then she got divorced and then I lived with like extended family and so then I was a mix in that and so them changing their budget to add another kid. Um, and then my grandmother lived with my aunt and I lived with my aunt. So, it was like definitely multigenerational and everybody contributing, but knowing, okay, there's a lot of mouths to feed. How do you manage that and what does that look like? And I think we were all just at the time didn't know any better. Looking back, we're like, we didn't have much, but we didn't know, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. We knew a little bit as we got older obviously because we were like school closed with my first paycheck. Um, but yeah, so we just we just that's all we knew. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And it sounds like um kind of money was like the the stabilizing factor in a lot of those changes, right? It was Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So, because it dictated could we do things, could we not? Work was important to get to work, to pay bills, lights. Food was really important. How do you stretch that money for food? So, yeah. Yeah. A lot of beans. Yeah. Yeah. In the culinary world, right, beans are the the filler, right? And they fill you up. So, Yeah. And they're cheap. That and rice. Rice like rice and beans there. Yeah. Yeah. What was um what was the I'm trying to think of a way to ask this. What was the Because we're talking about food. What was the meal that you came home and you're like, "Dang it." You know, can you remember when a kid? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, u my aunt loved salmon patties like in like whatever. And I do not like fish. So, anytime that we had that, I was like, I don't want to eat. Like, you eat this or you don't eat. You're like, "I guess I'll eat it." But I hated it. It was like the worst. Yeah. So, well, my uh my mom grew up in kind of rural Kansas, and so one of her favorite things was liver and onions. Oh. And that was usually like, "Hey, the budget's a little thin. Let's grab some liver and onions." So, every time I'd come home from school, I like, "Oh, yeah. Not this again." So, and my dad really liked um biscuits and gravy. Oh, it's a weird thing about me. I don't like biscuits and gravy. Seriously? No. No, thank you. Oh, I'm sad for you. I love biscuits and gravy. So, but that was another one. You know, you buy the little can, pop them open, and throw some gravy on it, and that's dinner. Oh, that was another one when I was a kid. I was like, dang it. Here we go again. It's the casserole. It's like, what are we what what's in the casserole? Like, hamburger helper, too. Oh, yeah. I made that. Yes. That's hilarious. We all kind of took turns like, I'm going to do the hamburger helper is easiest. So, yeah. Brow the beat, put it together, we're good. So yeah. Yeah, that's funny. It's interesting sometimes how um money um concerns and stuff can translate into food, right? Oh, totally. Definitely feeling it now as you know, everything gets more expensive. It's like, oh, I don't know if I can have that fivestar meal um every night again. I need to go back to the hamburger helper. Yeah. You know, grab some liver and onions. Well, even like just fast food. I think when I was a young adult, I ate probably more fast food because it was easy and convenient. And now I'm like, this is so expensive. Like I went to Chick-fil-A and I was like, nuggets should not cost this much money, but they do. And so, yeah, it definitely have shifted. Yeah. Kind of doing that. So, yeah. I remember the first time it hit me recently. I've got two kids and so we go out and they usually, you know, kids meals or something like that. Well, they got older and they don't want kids meals anymore. Yeah. They need more. So, you get the bill for four people and you're like, ouch, when did that happen? This shouldn't be shouldn't be like this. But oh well um so so let me ask you then let's let's continue that train of thought of how you learned those skills. What does that mean to you now as an adult? Right. You've you've kind of have those lessons of uh fiduciary responsibility. It's a big word. I love it. Uh yeah. And you've u migrated that up into your adulthood. So what does that look like now? Are you the saver in in your uh relationship? That's a good question. So my husband and I when we first got married, we realized we managed money differently. It's a good good thing to know when you're young married. Um and so I was definitely the one that balanced everything and he had a ballpark number. We have since geared more towards my rule of thought of like let's know what we have and what we're spending and know what's coming out. Um, so yeah, so I definitely I'm mindful of the the budget and kind of what's going on with the money. Um, and we work together. We were interesting though because we had two different accounts and we still maintain two separate accounts which most people think is crazy. We have we each pay expenses but we have we're on all the accounts. It doesn't but it's just different. We the way we manage it and I only get paid once a month. So that's a different planning than if you get paid, you know, twice a month or weekly. Yeah. And so I definitely had to be pretty strict of like I get paid here and it has to last the whole month, so how do I manage that? So yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. I think my wife and I are similar. Um she's definitely the let's count every single penny. I'm more of the it's fine. It's over there somewhere. Whatever. We'll take care of it. Okay. Uh we've unfortunately or fortunately I've never been dual income. So uh it's always been like oh your money is you know going to do this. Yeah. U when she was working and I was going to grad school then we switched switched. Yeah. After I graduated and started working. So yeah. Um but yeah, she's definitely the saver spender for sure. I'm I'm more of the mindful one. I'm like, "Well, don't we have this coming up? So maybe we shouldn't do this right now or we could wait." My husband's like, "I guess you're right." Or he's like, "Nah, it's fine." I'm like, "Okay." So, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's definitely how I am. I'm like, "Oh, yeah. We can afford this." And she's like, "Don't you remember the kids' birthday's coming up next month?" I'm like, "Oh, well, and then like planning for holidays, depending on how big your families are, and like budgeting that and figuring out, okay, who are we buying for this year, who are we not, who are we seeing, who are we not seeing, who's not going to care if they have a gift or, you know?" So, yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. But is I mean, it's a good point. I mean, before you get married, you need to have these conversations, right? Uh so you understand what's going to happen once you do get married, right? Where you're sitting there going, "Oh, how do we do this? How do we make this work?" Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, that's funny. Um well, let's we're we're still in the kind of the income segment talking about uh uh uh money coming in. If we transition a little bit over to expenses, what is the thing that like you just don't want to pay for? You can answer this professionally or personally as well. Like I know in your role, you probably manage a a decent budget and you're like, "Oh, got to fix the air conditioner at this campus." You know that? Yeah. Yeah. So, what are the things that you're just roll your eyes out like I just have to do this? Yeah. I mean, I think any expense like AC repair, car repair, anything that you know you're going to need and it's if it professionally you don't want a hot building because hot people don't work well and students don't like hot things either and so you want to address that as soon as you can. But it's always constant of like well we just fixed this one so now we got to it's like a train like a chain effect and you're like what now? Um so managing that. So when those pop up I'm like gh. Um, personally, it's probably when I see gas prices rise, I'm like, "Okay, my schedule next week, I need to go here, here, here, and here. Is the car is the NCTC car available? If not, then okay, how do I work out of there for half the day or the whole day so it doesn't I don't have to spend as much in gas." So, being mindful of that. But, yeah. Yeah. So, absolutely. Um, about a year ago, I I purchased um a plug-in hybrid for my my daughter's about to be 16. Well, she'll be 16 in two years. So, I'm just thinking ahead of like, okay, what kind of car is responsible enough that I can hand down to her? So, I went and got it. Um sales people are like, oh, it's it's a used plug-in hybrid. And I was like, big deal. Whatever. But now that I see gas prices go up, I'm like, oh my gosh, thank you. I'm so glad I got this plug-in hybrid, you know, getting 50 miles to the gallon instead of 15 and having to fill up, you know, every third day or every every week or whatever. So, it's currently in the shop. I had a windshield crack and so the the dealership has had it for a couple weeks and they've gave me a loner and I'm like this is awful. Yeah, 25 miles to the gallon. How did I do? I'm putting gas in this all the time. What is happening here? So, it's definitely um a surprise for me. But but yeah. Um okay, so expense questions, you know, if we continue down that path, what about what are some of the good expenses? What are some of the things that you're like, I don't mind spending money on this? Well, my husband would say my hair because he's like, "You're going back to the hairdresser." I'm like, he's like, "Why?" I was like, "Because it's time." So, I do spend money on like getting my hair done probably. I mean, not crazy, but enough. And then probably something that I definitely incorporate in a budget is um mental health and wellness. So, that is I go to the chiropractor once a month. Like, there's just things because your body ages and you're like, I kind of need an adjustment to function and do things. Um, so I definitely make sure that those are in the budget. Yeah. Yeah. And I can I can let them go or like push back if I need to, but yeah, those are one of the things I'm like, well, maybe I won't go every six weeks. I'll go every eight weeks or whatever. So, yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. My wife gets her haircut like once a year. Seriously? Yeah. So, I'm like, how do you do this? I know. I go, you know, once a month basically. Yeah. Yeah. Because Yeah. my hair's a little bit. Anyway, um so yeah, that'd be that that's fun. Yeah. So, is it something that you're like, I need to do this for my own well-being? Like, I need to go ahead and or is it just like a frivolous like I don't mean frivolous, I just mean like a like a fun uh feelood thing. Yeah, I think for at least my hair, I think it's both because it makes me feel good, but then it's also kind of frivolous. Like, oh, I get to spend however long they do it. I relax. It's a time we laugh all that and then I can go along my way. But yeah, so I think it it's both always the hair. Um yeah, I enjoy that. The mental health or like the physical like chiropractor and stuff. I think it's not frivolous because it obviously helps your body. So it is important. Well, and it prevents other expenses, right? Well, yeah. Like I want to be able to walk when I'm 80, 85 and not be hunched over or like oh I can't sit in this chair because something hurts or whatever. So, yeah, absolutely. We talked about it in a in a previous podcast, shoes. So, I like to run and I'm like, if I skimp on shoes, I'm going to feel it, you know, later and I'm going to have to go to the chiropractor. I'm going to have to see an orthopedist or whatever. I'm going to have aches and pain. So, I might as well spend a little extra money to to prevent that stuff down the road. Yeah. So, but with those kind of expenses, you can always like we're getting I'm going to get new running shoes. I'm like, I'm going to wait till Labor Day because I know they're going to have a sale at Labor Day and it will be a little cheaper and I'll save a little money. So, I am kind of mindful of those things because it is important. Same here. Like I I have a specific type and brand of shoe that I prefer and what I'll do is wait until uh early in early in the fall because they release the new Yeah. You're like I'm a year behind or two years behind my shoes. Yeah. as soon as they release like, you know, the the 26, I go try to find the 25 because I know those are going to be on sale and then I might snatch up two pair. Yep. Uh just just to have them for me. So we think alike that way. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Some great minds. I know. Obviously. I think that's how the phrase goes, right? Great minds think alike. Obviously. Yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. Um so then we've talked a little bit about income. We've talked a little bit about expenses. Um how do you balance those things out? like how do sometimes you balance your wants and needs or maybe talk yourself off the ledge of like I really want this but I probably shouldn't spend money on it. Do you have any tricks for that? Um I think in my younger days I would be like it's fine, I deserve it. I talked myself into a lot of things and now I talk myself out of a lot of things. Um, just because I'm like, "Okay, I think we've all gone to Target or Walmart and you're like, you're just walking up and down the aisles, you're like, "That looks really cool." Or if you go to Costco, if you're one of those people, you're like, "Do I need this $40 whatever?" And you think, "Yeah, I do." And then you walk a little bit like, "I probably don't need this." Like, I have this, I have that. Like, so I actively am like, "Do I really need it? Is it a is it a need versus want?" And sometimes the want will just out win and I'll just be like, "Oh, it is what it is. We got it." And move on. But other times, I definitely talk my self out of stuff. I think before I used to go like to Target or Walmart or whatever and buy things just to like, oh, I felt like I did something and like it didn't matter. And now I'm like, I don't need that. I need I should have just waited and bought something else later on. it. So, yeah. So, I think I've learned as I've aged like be mindful of what I spend the money on and the quality of it sometimes. Sometimes I'd rather wait to get new shoes and it still be the same shoes but it's cheaper or do I really need I don't know the only thing I can think of. We just bought bed sheets and so I'm like which is a hot topic in our family. Are they cooling enough? you know, all the things because I'm at that age and um yeah, so but what do you spend? Do you just buy it? And it's most people I know are like, "Just buy it on Amazon." I'm like, "I can't just buy it on Amazon. I need reviews. I need to make sure my money's going where it should and like all of that." So, I'm a little Yeah. different on that end. So, but yeah. Right. You're you're wise. I'm wise. I try to be mindful of it. Yeah. So, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, unfortunately, um, my family knows if I say I'm going to Shields, uh, oh, that means I'm going by myself and I'm going to be there for several hours. Uh, you're taking it all in. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Because I am definitely a Oh, yeah. I do need a new pair of running shorts. Yeah. And I do need a new grill and I should probably buy that driver over there, too, because, you know, I need I need a new one. Right. Right. So, so yeah. Um, I do think I mean, you've watched Parks and Wreck, right? Oh, yeah. And when they do the treat yourself day. Yes. And there are times I'm like, is this a treat yourself day or do I need to like stop? And sometimes I'm like, you probably should stop while you're ahead. So I think about that sometimes. So yeah, absolutely. Especially in the summer, I'm off on Fridays. So if I go do errands, my husband's like, "What are you doing on your errands?" I'm like, "I don't know. I'm just gonna go around." He's like, "What are you going to get?" I'm like, "And then I'm like, "Probably shouldn't get anything. I needed to go get this. I don't need to get the extra four things or whatever it is. So, yeah, that's like gift cards. I always complain um when like my wife gets a gift card uh because in her mind, right, it's her gift card. Well, well, that and Well, I don't mind that. That's fine. But like, let's say she got a $50 gift card to a store. She goes in and she's like, "Well, that thing costs 70 bucks, but it's only going to cost me 20." Yeah. Cuz I've got a $50 gift card. So, whenever she gets a gift card, I'm like, "How much is this going to cost me?" And I do that until I get a Shields gift card. Yeah. Then you It's reciprocated. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. She rolls her eyes cuz while she'll be responsible and only spend like 20 bucks more, I'll, you know, double this is on sale. Yeah. And I I could use this tomorrow and it would be great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I only had to pay for 50 bucks of this. She's like, "Yeah, but it's still $500." I'm like, "It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. I got a discount." Yeah. When else am I going to get a discount? Yeah, exactly. So, so yeah, my son actually um so my son's 12 and he went with his grandmother to Costco for the first time a couple weeks ago. He gets sucked in. Oh, guess all through it. His world was totally changed. Yeah. Yeah. He came home with a giant bag of pretzels and a giant box of those panda cookies things. Panda cookies? Yeah. I They're They're interesting. But he was like, "I was thinking about you guys. we can share this bag. And I was like, solid solid logic there, too. Way to spin it. Way to do that. He's like, I could have just bought one of these things and I ate it all, but I got some for you guys. You're like, sharing is caring. True. Yeah. Exactly. He's like, "Mom, why don't we have a Costco membership?" My Because we would buy all the things. Exactly. And we don't have a big enough pantry to hold all of the stuff we would get. So So yeah. Oh, that's that's funny. Good times. Um, let's talk about let's talk a little bit about Well, we did a little the guilty pleasures. Um, yeah, I think guilty is more like getting my hair done, a pedicure sometime. Well, mostly every month if I can if I have the time. Yeah. Um, I'm not extravagant on spending. Spending like shoes is not my thing. Like I will wear shoes and people are like, "Don't you need new shoes?" I'm like, "Kind of." So, but then I'll like go in for one pair of shoes. this is where your shields and I match up. I'm like, but these are all on sale, so I'll buy three pairs of shoes instead of the one pair of shoes I went in to go buy. So, I I find no fault with that logic. Okay. Yeah. So, um but hopefully my wife doesn't watch this. Okay. Because she'll your secret safe. Okay. All right. Right. Um what about nose? What are like instant nos? Like no, not gonna spend money on that. Who I'm trying to think. Um, I'm not a gadget person. My husband is a gadget person, so he's like, "Well, we can get this and it will do this." I'm like, "But we could just turn the light on and it's fine." Um, so I'm not a gadget person. So that's a firm no until I can see like the value of it. Then I'm like, "Okay, well that's pretty cool." Yeah. Or that's handy or Yeah. So for me it's gadgets, like technology gadgets. It's just not my Yeah. It's an easy no for me. Yeah. Well, that's probably where I'm I fall in line with your husband a little bit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely He's an early adopter of a lot of things. The Eyewatch, the iPad, the this, the Alexa, can you turn all these things on? Tell me what it means. And blah blah blah. I'm like, what what is going on? So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's my wife is like, "Why do we need three of these?" Like, because we just do. Yeah. We got three rooms. We need an Alexa in each room. Yeah. No, we don't. We just need one for the whole house. Like, but but we need three things. It's all good. So, so that's funny. Um, well, what about instant yeses? What's like you walk in and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I got to have that." Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. I think if it's like a good deal for me, it's a good deal. If I'm like, "Well, kind of like shoes. If I been looking at these shoes, I'm like, they're on sale and I like them when they have my size and I don't want to come back because I'm more of a tactile shopper. I don't I don't mind shopping online, but I can't see it and feel it and know it. Oh, yes. Um then I will Yeah. I'll snag it. Yeah. Because then I don't have to wait. Yeah. So that I'm a little more instant gratification. So I'm like, "Yeah, I see it. It's here." It's like when you get sucked in, which I'm sure you don't, into HomeGoods. Yeah. And you're like, "But I could use this." Or my husband's like, "We do not need any more throw pillows ever in our lifetime because you have boughten so many throw pillows." Like, "But they all had different purposes." He's like, "But do they? They're still a throw pillow." I was like, "Fine." Yeah. So, yeah. CO happened. So, this funny story. So, my just talking about HomeGoods and throw pillows made me think of this. My wife's interior designer. Um, so we have several. And when CO happened, I remember sitting on the couch and I looked over and I was like, I really like this new pink pillow that you bought. And she's like, first of all, that's orange. And second of all, we've had it for five years. And I was like, no, we haven't. She's like, yeah. I was like, "Oh, guess this is the first time I've really paid attention because you're home." Exactly. Yeah. You're stuck at home, so I had to watch it. So So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think um my my wife is definitely the like she's the the rational one that talks me out of stuff. And so um it makes it sound like my wife my wife is a great lady. She's wonderful. I would get along with her. I've met your wife. She's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So, she's definitely my my checks and balances for sure when it comes to that. Um, but I she is a a salesperson and not a salesperson. If she sees a sale and a good de deal, she's on it. And she's she's not a tactile person. Oh, she's not. So, it's one thing that always gets me about our budget is she'll she orders everything online. Yeah. And she'll be like, I really like the shirt, so I'm going to get it in four different sizes and see which one fits and then I'll send the rest back. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, "So, you'll see a big charge on the card, but don't worry because it will come back in a couple weeks." Yeah. Threearters of it will be gone. And I'm like, "Well, what? I don't Yeah. Okay. I don't I don't understand that. For me, I'm just like, I'd rather see it and touch it and know that it's what I want than it comes in the mail. I'm like, well, this isn't going to work." And then I had to figure out the time to go take it back or whatever. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. That I'd rather go touch it. Just Just get it right then and there. There. Um let's talk about kind of your career kind of trajectory a little bit. Um right, we talked about uh how you learned a bunch of life lessons, money lessons early on and uh as you've progressed in your career, what role has like uh uh money played there? Um were you motivated? I I know you so I know the answer to this question, but uh were you motivated like I want to get better. I want to do my best and I I I I want to grow and and and um climb the ladder is kind of a lousy cliche there, but or was it like you're motivated by money? You're like, "Hey, I want that bigger paycheck. Hey, I keep wanting it and go." I mean, which one do you think? Well, I know you I know you're just motivated to be the best you want to be. That's not really a factor, but it's just interesting to talk about uh what role money plays in wanting to to to climb the ladder, so to speak. Yeah. I think for me in my trajectory of my career, I did not plan on going into higher ed. That was not the original goal and I ended up in it and I loved it and um so part of that is like I love to help people and see and improve things and do things. Um so money I just was glad to get paid to do that. Um when I got raises I was like yes, thank you. um because it felt like I got seen and heard and oh you can do more and so it so money wasn't the motivator to do well at work and to move up. It was just an add-on when I did well um which was great. So um kind of icing on the cake. Yeah. So it doesn't motivate me as I think some people. So yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's definitely a personality of like, yeah, I want to be secure and I want to make this as much money as possible and I want to go and that's wonderful and fine and great. U, but then there's the other side where it's like, oh yeah, I get paid for this. Yeah, I get to pay to do something I really enjoy doing. Yeah. Um, which is great. I think my husband's probably was originally more geared towards the the number and getting that and I think he's kind of shifted to more like I like what I do. I get paid well to do what I do. I'm fine, you know. Yeah. Um so we're both kind of equal in that respects, but I've known people that are like hustling and want like no idea how to do this. I'm like that seems like a lot of stress. Yeah. That maybe it motivates them. It would just m cause anxiety for me because if it's not working then what do you do? So you have to switch and pivot and all that. So yeah, I don't think I know your origin story. And like you're you're saying you you you didn't intend to get into higher ed? No. How how did you start? So I actually went to school um for psychology because I wanted to be a counselor and I got my masters in counseling and then you know with that you're like I got to take this test do all these hours and stuff and I needed a job. So I my first job out of graduate school was working for communities and schools in North Texas. Okay. Um so I did that. I worked in an afterchool program and then through that I met somebody who worked at NCTC and it's like you should apply for this job and it was working with first generation low-income students and which was what I was doing at this middle school in Louisville ISD for communion schools and so I applied and got it. So that's how I ended up in higher ed and once I got there I was like I think I found my own like I like this. So I worked with students for seven years almost eight and then I moved over when we built per flower on campus and then I kind of shifted career-wise as far as working in campuses over campuses managing campuses. So yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. So my scope just went a little broader. Yeah. So instead of a student it was lots of students, faculty, staff. So yeah. Yeah. But no, originally I went to just be a counselor. I wanted to go help people. So I do help people still just in a different framework. Yeah, absolutely. Uh so I have similar Yeah, similar story, right? I got the the humanities degree. Yeah, humanities. Um and and wanted to teach and taught for 10 years or so, but then switched over into administration and kind of uh got to where I am, which by the way, um I do have the greatest job ever. Yeah. Just in case my boss watches. No, I mean you do have a great job. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome. Uh it's it's still education adjacent because we're so you know um friendly and pro education. So still get to work with school districts and universities and help people. Yes. In a different way than I originally thought I'd be helping people. So that's interesting. And I I think I fall kind of in that category of like yeah money didn't really ever motivate me. It was like this is what I'm passionate about and this is what I want to do so I'm going to keep doing and then the career just kind of migrated uh over time or evolved over time to to here I am. So, so awesome. I mean, I think I wanted a paycheck. I was like, I need to get paid for this. So, what does that look like? But yeah. Yeah, that's funny how that that does. Um, but like I said, I was teaching for 10 years or so. And then when administration came around or the opportunity to get into administration, higher ed. Um, it was like, oh, this is different. That's what a paycheck looks like. Oh, okay. Uh, little eye opening. I know. When I got graduated grad school, I got my first paycheck and I thought I was making so much money because you didn't have money. So I thought I was making a lot of money. I look back I was like that's nothing. That's like way below anything. So yeah, but I was thankful that I had a job and I liked what I did so I didn't didn't care. So yeah, when I was in grad school, we my wife and I look back on this too and and chuckle because like I said, we've never been two incomes. Um, but her first job is interior designer at a firm in Oklahoma City. And then I was uh in grad school with a stipend of about 900 bucks a month. Yeah. For 10 months out of the year. And then her income and we look back at we're like, "Holy cow, how did we survive on that?" Like that's incredible. So I feel like I'm getting closer to that old man, you know, shaking his fist at the clouds. Like you dang kids, you don't understand the struggles we went through. Well, when we were first married, I was in grad school and then my husband's income and my income and we look at the total combined. We're like, that was nothing. How did we have a house payment and this and this? Like, we just it just worked. I don't know how we did it, but we did it. So, yeah, it's crazy. We didn't have a lot, but we had we had a roof over our head, food, so yeah, and gas to get to work. So, yeah, you're happy, healthy, and moving forward. So, that's all you can do. Oh, that's that's awesome. So, um, we do like to kind of wrap up at the end with a kind of no-brainer segment. Um, and that's just questions that you don't know about. Um, and it's usually some sort of pop culture or like timely reference or anything like that. So, I'll ask you this. We had, um, in a previous podcast, we had the graduate assistant for the student money management center uh, talking to us and she was, uh, go ahead and say, considerably younger uh, than myself, probably close to your same age as you, Jessica. Yeah, of course. So, uh, but she I asked her about pop culture reference, what's what's happening on campus, you know, what kind of music, what kind of fashion, what kind of TV shows. So, I'll kick it back over to you. You might have a little bit slightly different perspective on the trends happening on campus now. But, you spot any that you're like, "Oh, that's interesting." I think, okay, I don't know if this is a trend, but I have noticed at least this summer, how many uh how much students Door Dash like to the campus and we'll meet them outside and pick it up and like bring it back in. And I'm like, I didn't know that was a thing. And even like then I started noticing staff and I was like, do people do this? Do nobody just get in their car and go get something to eat anymore? They're like, no. And I was like, oh, okay. So, yeah. So, I don't know if that's a trend, but as far as pop culture and references, I don't know. Like, I think some of the lingo I'm like, "What are you saying? I don't understand." So, they have to kind of kick it back and explain it in a different way. At least young our younger staff and they're like, "It means this." I learned a lot about Love Island this summer from um our younger staff and the ins and outs and what all that was and I had no idea about that whole genre of television. And so they educated me and I thought and y'all watch this like yes it's great. I was like and then I remember like well we didn't have the real world when I was growing up. It's a little little different. Um they're not real world. They just watch. This one you're telling them what to do or make decisions or whatever. So yeah, it's very different. So what did they reference? I'm just curious. Uh she kind of pleaded the fifth. Oh, and she's like not going to give the details. Well, she said she wasn't as in tune with it, you know, as as I would have assumed. I will say every once in a while just to annoy my kids. I'll say stuff like that was peak low key. And they're like no. They're like you didn't use that right. I'm like I don't even know how to use it. So, I was just saying it, you know, just they were trying to teach me cap, no cap, and I was like, "So, it's the opposite." They're like, "Kind of." I was like, "Okay." Yeah. Just busting. Yeah. It's something. Just busting, right? Yeah. I I don't know what that one was either, but I've heard it before. Yes. So, it's obviously it's something. And I went to present at a middle No, not middle school, elementary school at the end of the school year for career day and we're talking and I said six, seven, and then the kids lost their mind. I was talking about something like I don't I what is going on? They they're like we're sorry. We'll calm them down. I was like I guess it's a thing. I don't know. Yeah. That one's kind of on its way out. Yeah. I think it was towards the end that's why the teachers were like stop it. We're done. So yeah, it it peaked a few years ago. Yeah. Now it's low key. Now it lowkey. It's peak lowkey. Yeah. Yeah. Which I don't get that because peak is supposed to be like the ultimate and lowkey is like the opposite. Yeah. Anyway, but yeah, it works for the kids. I'm sure you have interesting text messages with your children. Yes. Although my daughter is a little bit like me uh in the sense that she cannot stand acronyms and like how she punctuates and like spells everything out. Yes. We might be the only two people in the world that text each other in full in complete sentences. Yeah. With periods and commas and everything. So yeah. No emojis. Yeah. And occasionally she'll throw one in there. My son, on the other hand, I have no idea what he's texting me most of the time because I'm like, can you explain that acronym? So yeah. Anyway, uh what about your reading list? What's uh what's on your uh bookshelf right now? Oh, what is on my bookshelf? I just heard about a book um that somebody mentioned. No, what was it? Not traditions, not traders. It was something I'll have to go back and look. Um trying to think of what else. Are you a fiction or a non-fiction? I'm definitely a fiction. Yeah. Um if you have female listeners, they will know what Acatar and all that is. So, and most of us that have read that are very excited because the new books are coming out this fall and in January. So, we're all just waiting for these books to come out to know what else happens in the story. So, that is definitely in my pre-order list on my Kindle like yes, when is this coming? Um, so more of the fantasy like I'm just gonna unplug. I don't want to read about actual things. Just whatever. My aunt just gave me a murder mystery book. So that's on the nightstand to read. So but yeah, I kind of it varies kind of what it is, but definitely non-fiction, not fiction. Fiction, not fiction. Yeah. Yeah. Acitar. Yeah. Haven't heard of that one. So I'm glad you clarified that was specifically for a different demographic. Yeah. It's your female audience will know what I'm talking about. So there's a book club at work and they all are in it to win it and like waiting a baited breath. Book club. Is this like you actually read the book or you just get together and talk? No, we all Well, it's either audio because there's a divide of people who actually read versus audio listen. Yeah. We don't discriminate. It could be either or. Yeah. Just read the book. Two different sensory perceptions, but it's fine. Same material. I mean, people will listen to it on their car on their way to work and then we'll once everybody reads it, we talk about it. So, and everyone picks a different type of book. So, it's kind of nice. Yeah. is something I didn't expect in my adulthood to be like, "Ah, Foot Club, that's pretty fun." So, yeah. Yeah, maybe you should throw some in there about finances. Probably. Yeah, you like you do. Yeah, like I did that. That was a nice like segue. Yeah, I do. Connecting those things. Yeah, I have a younger person that sits near me and so and she we talk about finances because we each bring our lunch. We're like, "What did you bring for lunch? What did you bring for lunch?" So, we definitely discuss, "Are you going out this weekend? Are you not?" Like, so she's she's mindful. And I think I'm showing her I'm like, I bring my lunch to you. Like, I don't go out to eat very much. Occasionally I'm like, I'm treating myself. I'm going to go get a taco or something. So, but you don't Uber Eats or anything like that. You know, Door Dash, whatever. No, I don't Door Dash. I'm right there with you. I don't understand that concept. I'm sure it's convenient. It's great, but I'd rather just get in my car and go get it and save four bucks or five bucks. Yes. Even though I probably just spent five bucks in gas getting over there. True. Unless I'm in my plug-in hybrid, in which case you're spending it. Yeah. Or you spend a dollar. Yeah. Who knew? Yeah. Well, that was actually a really nice way to like tie a bow on that. Like it all came back together like we almost planned it. I know. Go figure. That's That's awesome. It's the great minds thing that think alike. Oh yeah, that's true. Same same brain wave. Yep. Awesome. For sure. Well, Jessica, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. Thanks for just having a conversation. Um, love the advice. love all of the kind of common experiences we share and and hopefully our listeners out there, watchers can can take something from that and and relate to it. So, appreciate your time. Appreciate you being here and um thanks for checking us out on Checking In. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Loved it.