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[music] All right, welcome everybody. Uh, thanks for joining us on a new episode of Checking In, a podcast where we talk about the psychology of money. Uh, all of the good feelings, all of the bad feelings, the stress, the the happiness that, uh, entails money and one where we really dive into, uh, our guest and our guest personal experience with money. So, I am more than thrilled to be sitting next to the legend, uh, the Jared Mosley. I'll have to be honest. I looked at your title today and it's monstrous. Uh, so I answered anything that's nice. So, like, yeah, just make sure it's nice. I'm good. Whatever you want to call me. Perfect. I I was going to go with athletic director, but I know there's a lot more uh terms there uh for the Mean Green Athletics at the University of North Texas. So, thank you so much for joining us. We're we're certainly thrilled to have you. um absolutely love our partnership and so doing things like this just feels like a natural fit. Uh so we really enjoy the time we get uh with you. So again, thanks for being here. Appreciate it. With that said, um I I kind of explained the format earlier, but yeah, we do break it into a couple different segments. Uh the first being income where we talk about the positive feelings of money. Uh so let's go ahead and dive right into that. Can you remember your first job? You know, my first job uh really was um my dad was a farmer. So, my first remembrance of any kind of uh of job was the work he put us to on the farm. And u it's funny because at the time we were not compensated. It was kind of viewed as our contribution to the house. But our kind our our our payment was in the form of at the end of every summer we got to do a trip uh to uh we'd come down to Arlington, catch a few Rangers games and then do school shopping. So our school shopping was our compensation. Uh but I my first job my dad uh mom and dad had started a lawn service when we were in I would have been in high school. Um, and so that was the first time of actual, you know, having a small business you had to run, uh, getting, you know, money coming in, but you also had expenses going out. So, having to sit down and make sure you were charging appropriately and that you were paying your employees, like all of that went into the first uh, little lawn service we had. So, uh, we did that throughout high school and early parts of college. And um so that was kind of the first time we we got to experience receiving a check, per se. Nice. Well, that makes me feel a little bit better because a lot of times my kids are like, "Where's my [clears throat] money?" And I'm like, "It's called rent." Oh, yeah. It's called food on the table. Like you're you're good. Um that's it. I do give them an allowance. But um well, how did how did that make you feel first? First, let's start with uh kind of the trip, you know? Was that a highlight of your year? Did you like look forward to that or was that like a hey, at least we we're not working for a few days type? Oh, that was that was always a highlight. Um, and it's funny because as as we've worked through our careers and and um one of the things that we've tried to really focus on with our kids is not necessarily in whether it's birthdays or Christmas, we prefer experiences over over gifts. And so that's one of the things we prioritize in our budget is experiences. Partly because I do remember those times. I mean that was our opportunity to connect as a family and the memories we have from being able to do that and that was kind of our thing to do together. Um farming didn't afford you a lot of opportunities to just get away and for extended periods of time. So that was really um an important part of us um there and so always memorable um when we were able to pull those off each summer. Yeah, the experience being that reward. Yeah, we were just talking about this uh in another episode with Melanie actually. um she kind of prioritizes vacations and there's just so much research out there that shows yeah you might remember the Christmases you know the the good times and the feelings but you probably don't remember the presents but when you drill down your memories into vacations you're like oh I remember every single one of them right and and how it felt that's awesome well then that that leads to kind of the next natural question of like how did you go from farming into athletics? Well, my um it's interesting because my dad uh growing up in a small town, just 2,300 people, very much a a farming community. Um really the only two professions I was really around was, you know, other farmers. Obviously, we had a bank and you got some exposure to that, but it was really coaches and teachers and then farming. And uh I learned pretty quick I did not want mother nature to dictate whether I had a good year or a bad year. Um, and so I I always love being outdoors. I love working in the yard. I love working the farm. Um, but pretty quickly I knew I kind of want to go down the path and and originally thought I would teach and coach uh before uh sliding into administrative role one day, but just had some windows of opportunity that opened up and uh have loved the opportunity to be in college athletics and uh really been a huge blessing for our family. Nice. Well, I'm I'm not sure which is better, mother nature controlling your your destiny or wins and losses. Well, w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w wins and losses. Uh yeah, there's a lot of other variables we have to put up with, but I think uh you know, for the most part, we we love the impact we can have um in college athletics. I think that's one of the things um you know, as you teach your own kids, whether it's money, careers, all the things that they get focused on, I always share with young people, you need to follow what you're passionate about. money, money follows your passions. So, so get into something that you love and enjoy. And for us, having that impact, I know the the importance of my time in college and what college basketball and participating in athletics provided me. Um, and so I still am a firm believer, even though some of the chaos around what we do today in college athletics gets scrutinized, uh, the heart of what we do every day is still the same. we get to provide a an opportunity for people uh young people to better their their path forward and to give them an opportunity uh to chase their dreams when they're done and and so we we love that even though it does come with its own challenges. Yeah. Oh, no. Absolutely. Well, I think you guys do a phenomenal job over there at the university. So, um you guys are doing it right uh regardless of the wins and losses. So, um well, that's interesting. That kind of segus into um a little bit of touching on on your role and how money is kind of changing it and all that. I was going to ask the question about, you know, money motivating, you know, how does u getting that first paycheck? How does knowing that paycheck is coming motivate you to work harder? But, um, I'm imagining when you went to college, you probably didn't have NIL in place to motivate you to keep going. You see that kind of changing things at the university? Like, are your student athletes coming in more motivated to gain more followers so they they can get a bigger NIL deal or is it still the like I want to win, you know, that's the motivation? I think there's, you know, you you probably have different camps. Um, and I would say emphasis certainly in the the landscape of NIL's changed some of the motivation. Um, you I think more so, um, you know, I think everybody loves money. I think our our student athletes, one of the things we have to be cognizant of is like like me, I mean, my own story, I was not taught about money. We didn't talk money um, in a deep way in my own household. And so you start to learn that when you when you get into college, certainly when you go after your first job of now that I'm getting this, what what am I going to do with it? And so we spend a lot of time just around financial literacy. Um you want to make sure student athletes, if they are in a in uh an opportunity where they're going to accumulate a decent amount of money before they ever graduate. Um for some of them, it may be the best money they ever make in their life. So it's almost uh you want to you want to teach them early those foundational principles where you know they don't wake up in this window of opportunity they had and look back with regret. And so um you definitely want to um spend a little more time on the education front. But I would say from a motivation standpoint I think student athletes um there's a portion of them that are motivated by the money. I think all of them still love the game because they love the game and it's just a vehicle for them to maximize this window. Uh we also have a segment of student athletes who just in the the world of content generation and followers and and influencers like they they are trying to build a brand. Um and that's a way different approach uh that some of our student athletes have. Not a big chunk of ours fall into that category, but we also want to educate those um that are chasing that aspect of really viewing it as a vehicle to whatever else they may land in later. It's kind of a side uh opportunity for them to to generate income. So, um you kind of have motivations all over the place and and we want to try to do our best to educate as best we can. Yeah, absolutely. I just it just dawns on me it's like just a completely different landscape. you know, I I played a little bit in college uh baseball and I was just oblivious to everything. I just wanted to play, right? Go out and and compete. So, and I I know that desire still is there, but there's a lot of other motivating factors there, too. Uh and and thinking forward, thinking about how do we translate this into the next career, the next step, you know, all that stuff. I I think that's that's really smart. Uh well, you touched on it a little bit for your student athletes, but what about you? What was your kind of um guiding light growing up learning about money? Was it uh books? Was it school? Was it your parents? You know, I'm sure as a farmer there was definitely an eye on budget and resources and all that stuff. Is that kind of what guided your learning about money? You know, early I would say um it was it was pretty elementary. I mean, if if you if you had a good year, uh you didn't want to get to the place where you're just spending everything you have because you never knew when emergency might pop up or you you know, you might have a year where you're having to really squeeze and tighten the belt. And so, you know, I think I think stewardship from day one was always important. I know for our family, um you know, the faith component and giving God back um his tithe and his 10% of what we earned, like that was instilled at an early age. So, it's certainly something that we've communicated with our own kids and tried to build a habit right out of the gate. Um, and so, you know, I think as I I grew, I probably got exposed to more sophisticated conversations around money. Um, you know, when you're a farmer, you you don't have a retirement plan, a 401k that somebody's contributing to. So, you learn about that as you walk into a first job. Um, you certainly start to think through as you have expenses, how do you want to budget? Um, I can remember early in our uh in our marriage we got exposed to uh Dave Ramsey. Um, you know, there's a lot of other great resources out there, but we were in the time when uh before phones and people just didn't carry cash. We did the envelope system where we would set aside what we needed for, you know, eating out, for clothes, for gas. That way you could try to have a little discipline and and it was there in front of you. Um, you know, you obviously have a ton of apps and things now that allow you to manage that in a in a way that we didn't back then. Um, and then I think just as I got older, um, you know, as I've elevated through my career and you have more disposable income, you really start to think through how do I want to best utilize this? Um to be honest, we we made a decision early in my career to try to have uh my wife stay at home, raise the kids, and so it when you're going to do that, you definitely have to be very strategic about budget, and uh you really have to be dedicated to a system that you're, you know, you'll you'll stay in touch with, you you come back to regularly, um you have conversations around. And so, um, you know, you had times where we had to sacrifice there, but then as you do get older, there's, you know, whether it's friends, podcasts, things you just get exposed to. Um, you know, you figure out things that that make sense and that that you want to tinker with on the side just to to build either passive income or or just additional investment opportunities. Yeah. Create some margin so that you can you can breathe a little bit. Yeah. Um, we I tried that with my kiddos. So, I've got a 14 and a 12-year-old, and they still have their give, save, live mason jars on their u nightstands or their dressers or whatever in the room. I wasn't very disciplined enough to to make them stick to that. It was uh well, with my daughter, it was always like, "Yeah, whatever you want." Uh with my son, it was more of like, "Yeah, get a job, buddy. Come on. Let's get this going." Uh it'll hit him one day. I mean, I I try to rewind and and be like, "Okay, if I lived in today's world, would I, you know, would would the environment around me maybe shape me a little different than, uh, when I was growing up in rural West Texas?" But, uh, yeah, it's it's an interesting challenge. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Like the the Mason jars didn't appeal to them, but you look at their app uh their their bank account online. Yeah, they've got it organized and cut up exactly how they want it. I'm like, dang it. They're way ahead of I where I was when when I was that age. So, so nice. Well, you talk a little bit about the discipline and kind of the building the budget and sticking to it. Um, so that's kind of a nice little segue into kind of our expense segment. Uh, talking about some of those sometimes those those tough decisions, right? Those those guilty feelings around money. Uh, so it's a nice way to ease into that. Let me just ask you, what's your what's your favorite splurge? What what is something that you're like, I don't mind spending money on this because it's worth it, right? It's funny because um you know when when we were young and and traveled with family with my kids primarily um always vacations on the cheap like we were trying to figure out what is the cheapest possible way to do this. Um I would say now travel for me like I'm I'm always I'm not a first class guy. I want to get upgraded just because of points but I do exit row every time. I'll pay whatever it takes to go exit row. Um you I think when we uh you know when we go out and and eat now on date nights when now that we're close to emptiness nest and don't have kids we're having to feed like I'll order whatever I want off the menu. Um so those are probably the two where you know just as circumstances change and your dynamics and kids moving out um you know you're used to spending that money with five now we can spend it on two of us around the table. So it's those would be the things we'd probably splurge on the most. Nice. Travel and food. Those are good categories for sure. Yeah. Coming home from this last vacation. Um I So, like I said, I got four in my family and we did it was two and two, right? Isisle, I'm sorry, middle aisle seats, then the aisle, then aisle and middle. And so our kids got the middle seats and it was me and my son. And when we sat down, he's like, "Dad, give me the aisle seat." And I was like, "Buddy, you got to pay for this aisle seat." All right. All right. Dad gets this one. There there's a pecking order when it comes to uh flying privileges. For sure. Exactly. He was like, "Well, I don't know who's going to sit next to me." I'm like, "Yeah, that's why you're sitting there, so I don't have to sit next to him." So, yeah, that's funny. Well, let's talk about then um big expenses. So, we talked about budgeting a little bit. Um how do you how do you plan for those kind of big expenses? Like, uh can you remember buying your first car, your first house, and how you got prepared and ready for that? I remember uh my first uh car was in high school. So like those summers mowing yards and just trying to save up to where when you turn 16. Um you know that was uh that was I I do remember just the pride of saying I I bought this. Um and you know I I always tell my kids I do think there's a different sense of how you treat a car and and an asset when you've got skin in the game. Um, and so, uh, you know, I do remember the pride I had just in being able to do that that first one. Um, you I think about, um, you know, and really it kind of it gets back to now the probably the things I think about with money is is more legacy driven. I can remember when we were getting ready to buy our first house. I remember my grandmother had set aside um had set aside money to um to gift us when we were at that point. We didn't know it at the time, but when we found a house and we were starting to talk about it, I do remember just the blessing of being able to have somebody help you with a small down payment. Um at the time it was small. Buying house today, that's they're bigger today. But um you know so I I do think um I remember that first house and just the ability to do that and what that then allowed us to do you know as our family grew and as jobs and and responsibilities and and income grew. Um just what being able to have that first one under your belt. Um just the gift that was to us. And so that's certainly something now, you know, just thinking through, you know, as as my kids get older and the opportunities to be able to uh be in a position to uh hopefully ease some of those bigger items that I do think today's a challenge for just a lot of young people because it it's it is much more difficult to figure out the landing spot. um you know, times have changed, uh interest rates have changed, um just the whole dynamic of what it would take to get into a house was is night and day different. So, um but I do remember those first two purchases. And um you know, certainly you you plan meticulously to try to save up what you need for a down payment. And again, coming back to that, you know, the house part's great, but then you also got to think once you're in it, and you talk about big purchases, the surprise items, like that's one of the things early, you know, we probably didn't have the flexibility to do as much in emergency funds and those types of things. But now, um, you certainly try to, you know, carve out something a pretty good nest egg because, you know, with houses, there's always going to be something around the corner that you've got to fix or replace. So, it it uh you know, something you don't really think about on the front end, but just because you get in the house, there's always something around the corner waiting for you to uh have to figure it out. Yeah, absolutely. And I really like how you said that, too. You kind of converted your um angst of, oh man, I got to mow yards into the joy of, hey, I accomplished this, right? I got into this. That's a really good motivating factor to to have that discipline for that budget. Makes a really big difference. Uh 100% hear you about the kids, too. So, like I've I've told my kids like, "Hey, I'm I'm saving a little bit of money for your college, but if you don't need it, think of what that could what that next step could be for you, whether it's a down payment on a house or, you know, different things like that." So, yeah, it's slightly different world now. Um I don't even want to talk about when I when we moved back. So, we lived up in Oklahoma for a while uh for grad school and all that fun stuff. And when we moved back uh we moved back to my hometown, I was talking to my dad about when they purchased their house in 1989 and how much he purchased it for and what I was about to spend on a new house. I was like, "Oh geez, I was just born in the wrong time. You know, I missed the window there just a little bit." Well, and then you fast forward to what we're dealing with today. I look back, I mean, we bought our first house for $72,000 and I'm like, there's no way. I mean, you there's no way you could even probably something comparable today. You're looking at a $300,000, you know, so it's all relative, but uh yeah, I I I do remember the first time my dad told me what they paid for the house we grew up in, and I was kind of sick in my stomach. I was like, "Oh, man." Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I even drove by the the that house that I grew up in was for sale when we were looking for a house when we moved back. And a I was like, "No, I'm not doing that to my kids. I'm not putting them in my house." But B, I was like, I don't know that I can afford that right now. Uh, a lot more than what we needed. Uh, well, one of the things I'm learning too in having some of these conversations uh with with community leaders is there tends to be a pretty good pairing right in the marriage. So, I got to ask the question, are you the like, hey, it's it's 0%, let's get it now. Uh, and your wife is the like, hey, let's save up the money and pay cash for it. Or is there a balance between you guys? I think we have a pretty good balance. um you know she grew up in a similar you know her her dad was a farmer as well so I do think just the just the having the experience of growing up and what that meant and the impact of finances on a house I mean I think we certainly um you know we're not uh doomsday save everything and prep but like you you do um you do weigh the balance of understanding what long-term you know if you are going to finance something like that that that's a long-term decision and you just got to make sure there's a a balance there of is the timing right for us to do that or is this something maybe we can punt drive this car a little bit longer, you know, whatever it may be. But, um, we have a pretty good balance in the household. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm infinitely grateful for my wife because she she definitely balances me out. I'm the now guy. Yeah. I'm like, let's get it done now. We want it now. Let's do it now. And she's more of the like, hey, let's make sure this makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. We probably mirror that a little bit. I'm probably a little more the now guy myself. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Um, well, we can transition a little bit into a little bit about uh finances with with and mean and green athletics, right? Like a lot of these principles that we're talking about on a personal level still apply in the business world. Um, but you care to share like what what is one of those things that in your your role in your job, you're like, I hate paying for this. Like this is just this is just not an expense I want to deal with on a regular basis. I mean, I I think anybody in business, the two um the two things that you realize you really have no control over for us, it's, you know, certainly benefits. I mean, you're kind of at the whim of what those cost. Um deferred maintenance and utilities, like when you operate out of large facilities, like there's just a cost that comes with with operating those. And so um you know that that takes extremely amount good amount of time of planning and just discipline to do what you can to not get too far behind. Um and so you know and I I think for us too like the probably one of the growing um areas again that we don't have control over just you know medical expenses when we're providing benefits for student athletes and medical care and services. you know, you're you're at the whim of providers, you know, when you're self-insured and when those come in um you know, there's there's situations where um you know, you have multiple surgeries for people who don't have primary and you have to cover that bill. And so, uh, I do think there's just some of those like those are the ones that, you know, you have to do a little education around the department because not everybody's thinking they just see the number the budget number increase and they assume it's all going to the fun stuff that we get to do and and there's a pretty good amount of uh just annual escalation that's not a lot of fun that you do have to account for. Yeah. Just grin and bury. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And go for it. Nothing you can do about it. Yeah. Well, I hesitated. I didn't ask Melanie this question because I didn't want her to say marketing. [laughter] So, hey, you got to spend money to make money. Thank you. Thank you. I hope you heard that. That's my plug. Yeah, Taran's got my back. He knows exactly uh the line to give. That's awesome. Well, what about the windfalls, too? I mean, you guys had great success last year, right? Uh had the the first sellout, right, in and stadium history. By the way, I do appreciate the maintenance you do on the stadium. Those are some nice signs uh on the side of the stadium. I'm glad you keep those up. They look good. Yeah, they do. Um, but what happens then? Like, so you have a you have a budget and then all of a sudden you have a great year and you get some windfalls. Do you prioritize like where you're going to reinvest that that uh surprise income? Yeah, so we we do and um you know, one of the things I I give a ton of credit to my CFO, uh Matt Witty. He does a great job. Um, I think every good CFO, they build out a budget and they know where to hide money in case of emergency that, you know, they're not when we build one out, we're conservative from the get-go. So, we we want to outperform all those revenue categories. And when you have a year like we did last year, certainly there is um some some surprises there. And so really we we we typically sit down and kind of look at um we probably meet every two to three months and he does a great job of kind of giving us an idea of where we are. And throughout the year we're compiling a list of things we know we've got to take. Some of them are onetime expenses, some of them are investments in people that are going to be ongoing. Some of them are um you know uh renovations or or capital things that we we just want to do if we can knock it off. And so we meet regularly to kind of get a understanding of do at what point do we feel comfortable we can maybe check a couple of these things off not spend it all in in one fell swoop but we do try to plan out and prioritize. Um, you know, and I would say too, and this this is more from a business standpoint because it's one of the things we talk about our strategic plan. It that's the first lens we look at. So, uh, if we do have windfalls in um, in any of those revenue categories where we we've got a little bit of of extra, you know, we're looking at our plan to say, hey, what can we fasttrack that a goal that we is important to us that we've stated? And so we we generally try to work through that as a part of our process as well just so we're not picking things that really aren't having you know uh uh additive value impact to the to the organization. So um I will say we we try to exercise some discipline there uh too but um it is nice when you do get those windfalls. We we try to carry over every year a little bit of surplus just to your point no different than the household. you want to you want to try to have something in case of emergency because we always have two or three things a year that pop up that you didn't have planned. Um so uh that's kind of our approach. Yeah. No, that's a great approach. I like how so you have a plan for the the deficits, right? When uh I'm and I'm back into like a personal budget scenario, right? You have a you have a plan for the air conditioner going out at the house, but you also have a plan when you know that you know the the grandmother's gift lands in your uh your lap. You still know what you do with it. And it's not necessarily willy-nilly just throwing it out there. Yeah. Um and we've had to get creative like you do have no different than a household like sometimes you have something hit that's more than you can and so you do have to talk through how can you um in an intelligent way manage if you have to do any type of financing. Um if you do have something that you need to put on a on a three or fouryear note to to not tap into all of your reserves right away. Like there's some things when you're operating, you know, a $60 million budget. You do have some levers you can pull there that that don't [ __ ] you. But it it's very similar to the air conditioner going out. Like sometimes that happens and you're ready for it. Sometimes it you don't. You have to figure out you can't just ignore it. Like you've got to solve it. So there's you try to minimize uh putting yourself in long-term um handcuffs uh when you're making those decisions. So, you know, being able to put aside money and save that is really, really important. Yeah. Yeah. You're looking for the 0% financing option when that that emergency happens. Yeah. Lowest percent possible. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, I don't I don't think a whole lot of people understand too that y'all are a separate budget, right? You're not the University of North Texas. You're mean Green Athletics. So, you while there is some symbiosis, right? You guys work together and do a lot of things together, you're you're kind of your own own vehicle, your own thing, right? Yeah. And um you know we we scale so within athletics I mean we we've got a compliance department, a marketing arm, a fundraising arm, a facilities arm, uh um business operations, HR like we we kind of have a mini um mini campus uh just because of the volume and and the scale of what we do and how visible it is. And so, um, yeah, we we've got a huge team of folks that do a great job, but it is, um, it is a little more complicated than just being a really small I mean, we we are a $60 million business that has to have units that can support that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I don't think a whole lot of people divide those two things. So, so you guys kind of have a some autonomy and some independence there that doesn't necessarily impact the academic side. Right. Yeah. We lean heavily on resources on campus um just because we do have a great um you know we've got partners all over campus who do a phenomenal job supporting a lot of what we do but there are some of those units that are a little more standalone uh just by the nature of the day-to-day grind that our coaches and staff and everybody goes through. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, um we can segue into our final segment here. It's what I like to call the no-brainer. Uh, and it's a no-brainer because you don't know the questions, right? Uh, and so we'll we'll move kind of quickly through them or we'll dwell on them just however you want to. You might even just look at me and be like, "No, not that one. Not that question." Uh, so first one I want to hit you with though is should be a fun one. U, new season's coming up pretty soon. Would you ever want a Ted Lasso on your coaching staff? I I love Ted Lasso. Um, I think, uh, it's funny as much as, uh, that movie, um, there there's something about it that just resonates. I mean, if you've been a part of a team, um, having having good coaches, the best part about them is they know how to motivate and inspire. Um, and so like that that whole movie just sets up perfect for for what we get to do every day. So, yeah, I'd love I'd love a Ted Lasso. Yeah. Yeah. He's definitely somebody you want to be around all the time. Oh, yeah. I've rewatched it getting ready for the fourth uh the fourth season coming up pretty soon and I've started to realize like I understand Coach Beard getting mad because of the he doesn't necessarily care about the wins and losses, you know, that a that a typical coach would, right? He cares more about the developing the players and developing the people. So, I see that as a high priority, but I could see how that that could wear on you of like we still got to win, man. Come on. Let's let's win. Uh so, so that's interesting to know where he fell fell on that spectrum. Huge fan. Huge fan. Good. Good. Oh, that's why we get along so well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Ted Alleso fans for sure. Um, this one might be a little bit more touchy. So, um, we'll see how far we get with this. What do you think about all this sports betting, man? Like, is it changing athletics, college athletics, all of that stuff? Are you for it? You against it? I um I think betting in general, you just look at how accessible it is now. um used to to bet you had to go to Vegas or a state, go to a sports book or have somebody you knew that was doing it illegally that you're working with like and and like it was really more challenging to do. And now that you've got apps and betting apps and odds and all these things that it's essentially betting, we're we're getting creative and calling it things that aren't. But, uh, I do think it it it does worry me just because I do think student athletes today because of the money involved in college athletics are at a um there's there's some u vulnerability there and and I do think as student athletes have to navigate um just what comes with that um you know the scenarios that you hear about like it so much of what we do opens the door I think just for more uh bad players to to get in to the lives of our student athletes, you know, point shaving, fixing games, all those things I think um you do worry about. Um and we try to educate as best we can. I mean, that that's something that most of most young people are doing well before they ever get into college. So, that's a habit and a and an addiction that for some people that's you just can't turn it off. And so we try to do a lot of again education and just reminding student athletes what's at stake. Um you don't want to jeopardize the opportunities afforded to you in this small window. So I always tell them listen that may be something you want to do after you graduate, but just don't put yourself in that that situation today. Um but it's certainly a growing concern I think across the landscape of college athletics. Yeah. Well, I'm trying to decide if it's one of those things like, you know, 30 years ago, oh gosh, maybe longer than that, you know, somebody showed signs of like ADHD, we didn't know what it was, right? We kind of handled it and dealt with the symptoms and all that stuff, but now we recognize it as as a um, you know, in the the DMS or DSM, u, the diagnostic manual as an actual disorder, right? Is that kind of how college betting not necessarily from a psychological perspective but right now we look at it we go we don't know what we're looking at but 20 years from now we're like oh these patterns have emerged this is this is okay betting this is crossing the line this is what you should watch out for etc. So, that's kind of why I'm on the fence of like, well, I mean, it seems harmless for those who can handle it. Uh, but for those who need a little bit of help, like recognizing it's an issue and stepping away from it, that's where I'm like, ah, maybe we should just shut this down, you know? So, I'm I'm kind of on the fence figure out. The integrity of the game, I think, is the other part. I mean, you just you just don't want to be in a position where you're perceived to be swaying what actually happens in a game because you've got skin in the game. Um, and it's amazing now just the the tools at our disposal. I mean, there's companies that um, you know, that monitor sports wagering on our rosters and our teams. And so, there are things in place like if somebody's in the system and they go to a sports book to place a bet, they can't even place a bet. Like, it'll it locks them down immediately. Um, you know, the stories of people getting busted. Like, it's amazing how quickly when you're talking about bets being placed and abnormal bets being placed, like they watch that stuff. And to connect the dots within a matter of 24 to 48 hours of who texted who, what information that led to that bet, like it it's wild. Um and so like you know you you get into and we share with our staff like even even for us as staff members people think about student athletes and even coaches in the game but you know um you know if we had an alum or a donor who just as casually what you know what was so and so's injury uh you know that happened in the game we saw him carded off or walked off when's he coming back like all those are things that are knowledge that if we share openly then lead somebody to So it may inform their gambling habits or what what decision they make. So we have to be extremely cautious on just information and what we what we can share and can't share. Um just so that we're never putting ourselves in a position to say we were uh negatively impacting the integrity of the game. Nice. So that sports information desk becomes really important. Yeah. It's no longer just handing out stat sheets and scores. It's it's monitoring activity and everything. That's crazy. I didn't know that. I learned something new today. That's awesome. Um, I'm glad to hear you guys have all those stop gaps in place to It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. All right. Here's the big one. All right. Here's we we can kind of bring it home with this one. And I'm only asking this because of your personal experience and and what I witnessed at a football game one day. Um, tarps off movement. No. For it or against it? No. I that I will not be participating. Uh, that that was a that was a once in a-lifetime in the moment. Um, you know, it was fun. I I I I'll say this and I think for you guys it was awesome to have our first sellout in Daku and and just to see people's excitement as a season built. I mean, that's what we live for is for people to have a sense of excitement and pride in the University of North Texas and um to be able to witness that last year and just to see so many people who have been on the sidelines who have not engaged who a lot of them in our just right in our backyard. I mean, here in Denton County that have that graduated whole degrees from North Texas, had not been to a game uh since they were in college. Uh but to have that experience was just phenomenal. on. So, uh, who knows what in the moment I might do down the road, but I think anything to capture and generate excitement with students in particular, but our fans, uh, we want to be in the middle of that and and make sure that we, um, we we see and appreciate, uh, the things that they bring to the table every game. Yeah, absolutely. And I totally ask that question tongue and cheek. Uh, I will say for I I 100% agree with you. It was amazing season. It was so much fun to see everybody get involved. Um, and for those of you who don't know, tarps off movement being a section of guys u hopefully guys uh take off their shirts and swing them around try to get the rally going. Yeah, that type of thing. And it it happened at uh Daku Stadium last year and I remember it happening just laughing and thinking, "Oh, this is great." And then when they showed put pulled the camera on you, I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is the guy. This is the right guy for the right position at the right moment at the right spot." So, well, I told my marketing staff we were not because we were playing Navy and they were going down getting ready to score, which would have put it within a one possession game. And I said, I'm not going down there until this game is in hand. And I think we got an interception within two plays. And so then they they drugg me up there. So, we got it done. They reminded you. Yeah, we got it done. Remember what you said? Let's go get it done. Yeah, that's awesome. No, it was a great moment. So, and I think that's actually a great way to kind of wrap up, too. Um, like I said earlier, man, we just so appreciate the partnership and watching you guys work over there and seeing what you're doing and how you're doing it. You know, always uh pushing the right buttons and and just making great decisions. We have loved being a part of that. So certainly grateful for all you do for the community, all you do for and mean green athletics. Uh just your presence is is is such a joy. So, we're we're grateful that you came along and and uh jumped in on this uh kind of a whim podcast and and hopefully we keep going from there. So, thank you so much for your time. No, I appreciate it. And and uh I just want to say how much we appreciate um you and your entire team, Melanie. Um you think about community partners, you know, something the scale of college athletics, one of the most visible, exciting, um energizing parts of of what we get to create on a campus. and we couldn't do it without uh so many people behind us and willing to to not only invest but come alongside us and and uh for a shared purpose of getting people engaged. So uh looking forward to an exciting year ahead. Yeah, absolutely. Anybody's out there on the fence right now, jump in. Jump in now. Now is a good time to to get involved with Ming Green athletics. So Jared, thank you so much, man. Appreciate your time and uh go Mean Green. All right. Appreciate it. Go Mean Green.